By akademiotoelektronik, 04/06/2022
Rafale, F-35, Eurofighter or F-18: Switzerland very close to a decision
- Entreprises & Finance
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- Aéronautique & Défense
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Après la Croatie, la Suisse. Dassault Aviation and its three competitors (Eurofighter, Boeing and Lockheed Martin) will learn about the Swiss Federal Council's decision on selecting future fighters of the Swiss Army before the end of June. In the first quarter, the assessment reports of four aircraft were reviewed in detail. L'Eurofighter Typhoon (BAE Systems, Airbus et Leonardo), le F/A-18 Super Hornet (Boeing), le Rafale (Dassault Aviation) et le F-35A (Lockheed Martin) sont en compétition pour un contrat fixé jusqu'à 6 milliards de francs suisses (5,5 milliards d'euros environ), le Gripen E de Saab ayant quant à lui jeté l'éponge en juin 2019 sur les recommandations de l'Office fédéral de l'armement (Armasuisse). Saab was unable to submit Gripen E for evaluation between 24 and 28 June 2019. The remaining four aircraft manufacturers submitted their tenders on November 18, 2020.
The Federal Council makes its decision on the basis of a comparison of total benefits and total costs (30-year acquisition and use costs) made as part of the evaluation report. It was completed in the first quarter of 2021 and was the basis for the Swiss decision. Fighters were screened according to four main evaluation criteria developed by the Federal Ministry of Defense, Population Protection and Sports (DDPS): Efficiency (operational efficiency, commitment autonomy): 55%; Product support (easy maintenance, support autonomy): 25%; Cooperation (between armed forces and procurement authorities): 10%; Finally, direct compensation cases: 10%.
200 millions de francs suisses par appareil
Le DDPS a estimé le prix de 200 millions de francs suisses par appareil. This price includes all weapons (missiles and ammunition) and logistics. It also takes into account the cost of mission-specific equipment (sensors, missiles, self-protection systems, additional tanks, etc.), Systems for evaluating commitment and systems for training (e.g. flight simulators for pilot training and systems for ground crew training). That means a total of 30 planes. According to DDP, the parameters set by the Federal Council and Parliament, especially the maximum financial amount of 6 billion francs, should allow the purchase of 30 to 40 fighter jets to replace 30 F/A18s and 26 F5s. Ultimately, the exact number will depend on the price of the selected equipment.
The main tasks of these new Swiss fighters are air defense and air policing (before COVID-19, there were 1.2 million civil and military flights every year), and will be delivered between 2025 and 2030. These planes will protect Switzerland from air strikes until at least 2060. They will replace the old-fashioned F-5 Tiger introduced to the Swiss Air Force more than 40 years ago and the F/A-18 Hornet, which was put into use in 1997. As a result of a modernization plan, 30 F/A-18 Hornets will be able to serve until 2030, while 26 F-5 Tigers, which are still in service, will continue to serve to ease the burden on the F/A-18 fleet, although there are some technologies dating back to the 1950s. In September 2020, the Swiss voted to approve the purchase of new fighters with 50.1% of the votes.
Offset : 60% du contrat
Le constructeur sélectionné aura l'obligation de compenser 60% de la valeur du contrat en passant des commandes à l'industrie suisse : 20% directement et 40% indirectement dans le domaine de la base technologique et industrielle en lien avec la sécurité. "The main purpose of the reparations case is to strengthen the security industry and promote freedom of action in Switzerland in terms of security policy," the DDP explained. As a result, they usually enable Swiss companies to acquire cutting-edge technology, develop new skills and create or maintain highly skilled jobs, especially in the Safety Technology and Industrial Base (BTIS). As a result, the acquisition of the F/A-18 C/D fleet has enabled about 400 Swiss companies, three quarters of which are small and medium-sized enterprises, to benefit from the compensation business.
Pourquoi 60% et pas 100% comme la Suisse en a l'habitude pour les systèmes d'arme achetés à l'étranger ? DDP argues that the offset generates additional costs, leading to higher prices. According to Swiss machinery, electrical equipment and metal industry association Swissmem, the extra cost is related to the competitiveness of Swiss companies benefiting from the offset and is estimated at 5%. The selected aircraft manufacturer should ensure that the offset is allocated to the following areas: 65% in German-speaking Switzerland, 30% in French-speaking Switzerland and 5% in Italian-speaking Switzerland. Armasuisse will ensure that offsets between regions are properly allocated.
Un critère de souveraineté important
Lors de sa visite à Berne, la ministre des Armées Florence Parly a promis aux Suisses qu'ils auraient la pleine souveraineté sur leurs systèmes d'armes, s'ils devaient se décider pour le Rafale et système de missiles sol-air de longue portée SAMP/T d'Eurosam (Thales et MBDA). Florence Paley stressed at a press conference with Swiss President Viola Ahd: "I know Switzerland attaches great importance to the principle of sovereignty, especially the principle of data sovereignty." "France is therefore committed to respecting the sovereign ownership of the data. To be clear, there will not be a black box in these systems, which will be the sovereign right of Switzerland, "the minister said.
This is a matter of concern in Switzerland, which aims to achieve the greatest possible degree of autonomy. "As a neutral country, Switzerland must be able to stand on its own feet," the DDP said. However, he still clearly realized that it was impossible to be completely independent of the manufacturer and his country. Sur les plans technique et financier, l'industrie suisse n'est pas en mesure de produire elle-même un avion de combat incluant tous les composants, notamment lessystèmes électroniques, les capteurs... Marionna Schlatter (Green), a member of the French National Assembly, was surprised by the presence of F-35 in DDP pre-selection. In response, the French Federal Council explained in March 2020 that "technical dependence is carefully identified in the assessment and identified as a test point for risk".
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Commentaires39 Lioà écrit le 22/06/2021 à 15:17SignalerC’est le F35 qui a été choisi
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Mdrà écrit le 04/06/2021 à 22:51SignalerLio .fidele lecteur de spoutnik peu etre 😁Pour être alerté par email d'une réaction à ce commentaire, merci derenseigner votre adresse email ci-dessous :
Lioà écrit le 18/05/2021 à 15:11SignalerLes seuls avions valables aujourd’hui, sont les avions russes. The rest is rubbish, especially gusts. Pilots hated this plane dating back to prehistoric times (80 years ago).Pour être alerté par email d'une réaction à ce commentaire, merci derenseigner votre adresse email ci-dessous :
Réponse de Math le 18/05/2021 à 16:01SignalerMmm moui.... What else? S57 is new. Outside, the Russians are from 1983. These are derivatives of Su 27. In our country, the first flight was a gust of wind in 1997. The F35 made its first flight in 2003. What is ancient? The wind is very loud. . . Well, yes. . . What else? S57 is new. Outside, the Russians are from 1983. These are derivatives of Su 27. In our country, the first flight was a gust of wind in 1997. The F35 made its first flight in 2003. What is ancient? Gust works better than other planes. . . Otherwise, Indians, Greeks and Egyptians will not buy it. . . Apparently not very well informed. . .RAPH's response to Number 10 on May 21, 2021: 50Signaler@lio, what is the basis of your comments? I want to read your arguments, not your impressions. That's very kind of you.
Pnyffenegger wrote on May 18, 2021, 11: 45SignalerI tends to gust for maintenance and spare parts: Just to cross the border. In addition, Gust demonstrated its versatility on the battlefield. Acheter d... I prefer Gust, about repairs and spare parts: Just to cross the border. In addition, Gust demonstrated its versatility on the battlefield. Buying an American plane for the Swiss is like buying an American watch for the French. Let's not forget the fines imposed by the United States on Swiss banks. Swiss friends in America are not just Swiss friends.
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benoità écrit le 17/05/2021 à 21:18SignalerMoi je pense que le f35 c'est bof pour la suisse, trop lourd, mono moteur, avion toujours pas fini.Eurofighter ? Chasseur tres lourd pour chasser loin.... Toujours pas fini non plus.le super hornet, sacré client, très bon avion, bi moteur épr... I think the F35 is good for Switzerland, too heavy, single engine, the plane is not finished yet. Eurofighter? Heavy hunters can hunt far away. . . . Super Hornet, sacred customer, very good aircraft, proven twin engines, in the F18 continuation. The gust, frankly, the gust in Switzerland, would be great to see it dancing along the side of the Alps. Super plane super standard F3R, spectrum, top weapon, mica and meteor. The improvements in Switzerland prove this point. Let's chauvinists, but the super bumblebee is heavy, but now it is a little lower than the gale. . .Pour être alerté par email d'une réaction à ce commentaire, merci derenseigner votre adresse email ci-dessous :
Réponse de Math le 18/05/2021 à 10:55SignalerLe F18 a une chance en combat à distance et en combat tournoyant, s’il tiens plus de 30 secondes, les chances s’équilibrent. At the first turn, however, it was a butcher. Since its energy is well preserved, if it can avoid shooting, it will. . . F18 has opportunities in both ranged combat and spin combat. If it is held for more than 30 seconds, the opportunities are balanced. At the first turn, however, it was a butcher. If he can conserve energy well, if he can avoid shooting, he has a quarter chance of winning. At a distance or 10 kilometers, he can do anything with his Amraam or Sidewinder 9X. He has great strength in electronic warfare, but. . . Overall, this is not a very good one, especially against F4. There, from a communications point of view, the evolutionary potential at radar level and all the other aspects (elongation, bombing, maneuverability), the comparisons are poor. Now it's still American, and it's cheap because they already have the old F18. F35 has just been killed by the United States. They are waiting for the main body to explode completely, and then unplug it. Decision inertia is playing their tricks. With too much money on the table, too much work on the table, it's sad to see the U.S. Air Force survive on a bad plane. It is useless to the Swiss. Eurofighter jets, while procedurally inferior and completely out of control, may have a political card to play. The latest radar (English, German or German/Italian/Spanish are not that bad).Ardisson wrote on May 17, 2021, 18: 51SignalRead French comments on Switzerland made me laugh bitterly. You are really self-centered and know nothing about your neighbors.
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Réponse de Gerfaut le 17/05/2021 à 20:24SignalerTout d'abord, ce n'est pas parce que qq'un raconte n'importe quoi qu'il faut faire pareil.Pour en revenir au sujet, le F/18 et le Rafale sont deux avions multirôles et polyvalents, capables d'évoluer ds des environnements restreint avec agilité et ... First of all, it doesn't mean you have to do the same thing. Back to the subject, the F/18 and Gust are two versatile, versatile aircraft capable of flying in restricted environments with agility and firepower, which makes them a huge success today. (2) F/18 and Gust are two multi-functional and multi-purpose aircraft, which can fly in restricted environment with agility and firepower, fly in restricted environment with agility and firepower, and fly in restricted environment with agility and firepower. Eurofighter jets and F-35A are more like fighter-bombers, so it is much less efficient to defend Swiss territory in close combat, which is not very large but mainly mountainous. After QD, we get the money, and we can only see those things that shine with the F-35 image (cost, maintenance, incompatibility with thunderstorms, not to mention the list of outstanding issues that led to the U.S. military not renewing contracts, which will make me familiar. As for the Gust F3R, which is far from being overtaken and has little to envy for the F/18, it is instead one of the few aircraft able to maintain its altitude and authorized to land on a U.S. aircraft carrier. The ball is on your court and you have to make the right choice! In all friendships.Is there anything important to learn from them that we don't know yet? May 18, 2021 at 9: When we conquer you, we may know you better; (Humor)
Mougeon wrote on May 17, 2021, 12: 16 Signals Protect Helicopters from Hostile Air Attacks? That's a good idea. . . But who can cross the EU and bomb our respectable neighbor? All the dictators and drug dealers in the world point to UBS and Geneva Freeport. ... One. . . Protect Helvetia from hostile air strikes? That's a good idea. . . But who can cross the EU and bomb our respectable neighbor? All the dictators and drug dealers in the world point to UBS and Geneva Freeport. ... An anti-missile station is more appropriate: Rocket Kim was educated in Switzerland. Will he retaliate against his teachers? Money laundering is still the best anti-trouble insurance. Well, if you sell them a gust, even if it's second-hand, it's a good thing.
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Réponse de Ardisson le 17/05/2021 à 18:44SignalerLes Suisses n’achèteront pas le Rafale qui est certes un bon avion, mais dépassé..Totoff on May 18, 2021 at 9: 06Signaler@Ardisson: Through which plane?
Philippeà écrit le 17/05/2021 à 11:43SignalerLe supériorité du Rafale ne fait aucun doute tant en combat que pour ses équipements embarqués, plus cher peut-être mais la France à des arguments et pas des moindres, proximité avec la France pour l'entretien, pièces, la formation des pilotes super ... There is no doubt about the superiority of gusts, Whether in combat or on airborne equipment, maybe more expensive, but France has some arguments and not least, is close to France in terms of maintenance, parts, training of trained pilots and, most importantly, has proven its own fighter jets in hostile territory in recent years, something its competitors have failed to do, Described by many countries as the best bomber interceptors, among which the United States should not let our neighbor Switzerland be indifferent to their choice, all arguments are fighting for our gorgeous gusts, let's pray for our gorgeous fighters, the pride of French industry.
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Réponse de Blabla le 17/05/2021 à 12:15SignalerC'est du blabla tout ça ! Gust has never faced any real air defense system, let alone the fighters in front of it. All that has been proved is that it can be done like Phantom 2000, but bigger or with me. . . That's nonsense! Gust has never faced any real air defense system, let alone the fighters in front of it. All that has been proved is that it can do Mirage 2000, but in larger or fewer aircraft. It has proven its bombing capability, but it is mainly a fighter jet, and in the first days of the war, it was designed to gain air superiority. . . Gust radar can't see F35. . . Just in time! He took the arrow and didn't know where it came from! Reminiscent of dark moments. . . Knight Francis was massacred by the British Longbows. . . Except now Belgians, yes, Belgians fly in F35! In other words, Belgium can gain an air superiority over France!NLP replied on 17/05/2021 14: 45SignalBlabla: All the stupid French blows! Even the U.S. Air Force doesn't want the F35 and is cutting orders. The F35 has no chance in a level playing field.
Calamard replied on May 17, 2021 and 14: 54signaler@blabla. You know a lot of the latest generation of aircraft, they fight against other fighters in real life. What matters is sales, which requires not only technology, but diplomacy. Americans sell it. . .@Bullshit. You know a lot of the latest generation of aircraft, they fight against other fighters in real life. What matters is sales, which requires not only technology, but diplomacy. Americans sell F35 because they provide life insurance for customers throughout NATO. It's biased and unpatriotic when it comes to denigrating our gusts! ! ! !
Ardisson replied from 17/05/2021 to 19: 20 signal but MDR! What advantage? In fact, you don't know anything, just repeating what the French media are trying to make you believe.
Math answer 18/05/2021-11: At this time, the gusts must be greater than anything flying. There are still one or two planes that want to play heavy, but, well, they are in the hangar, during overhaul, better than when flying. The gusts are getting stronger and stronger. . . Of course, at this moment, the gust of wind is bigger than anything flying. There are still one or two planes that want to play heavy, but, well, they are in the hangar, during overhaul, better than when flying. The gusts are getting stronger and stronger. The plague on the other side of the Atlantic, we understand. $1.5 trillion was wasted on the F35, which they built out of enclosed buildings and flew once a week. . . It's time to settle accounts. It's not good-looking. Even data fusion is a problem with F35. Stealth. . . Hmm. . . Who said L-band radar? This is so mean. Who said a shooting solution was found? Who said no lengthening? No, really, don't fight America again. Let's be friendly. And it seems that Alis is no longer working, his replacement has been planted, and the United States will give up espionage against the Allied Air Force. No, I'm kidding. From this point of view, maintaining information flow still works. They have retained some capable engineers on this issue. LM was delighted. This is the most important thing!
Pierreb 78 on May 17, 2021 at 10: 27 Provide Europe with the means to provide high-performance fighter aircraft to all its countries (including Switzerland and other countries outside the EC), because there are three major European manufacturers (Saab, Airbus and Dassault) and several companies able to provide high-performance fighter aircraft. Europe has the ability to supply high-performance fighter jets to all its countries (Switzerland and other countries outside the EC) because it has three major manufacturers (Saab, Airbus and Dassault) and several companies able to provide high-performance engines and all equipment, including weapons. Switzerland is fully interested in joining its neighbors, both in terms of performance and MCO. In action, synergy will only strengthen our position in European integration and pose a real threat to our potential enemies. Financial challenges remain, but in the face of future challenges, the interest lies in regrouping.
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Loufià écrit le 17/05/2021 à 10:22SignalerTout plaide pour le Rafale. If it is not selected, we will have to carefully examine their basis, because it will be suspicious. The other credible candidate is the F18, but scores can only be much lower in terms of cooperation and economic impact. All the reasons are gusts. If it is not selected, we will have to carefully examine their basis, because it will be suspicious. L'autre candidat crédible est le F18 mais sur la partie coopération et retombées économiques, la note ne peut être que bien inférieure à celle du RafalePour être alerté par email d'une réaction à ce commentaire, merci derenseigner votre adresse email ci-dessous :
Réponse de matins calmes le 17/05/2021 à 11:52Signaler@ Loufi. You say "shady", good jokes, lobbying, you know? Uncle Shan Mu is very good at this, especially when it comes to weapons.Calamard wrote on May 17, 2021, 9: I can only be happy with these sales, but it will definitely affect our delivery to the French Air Force, because we will have to make arbitration, but anyway, give priority to export, because we can wait, because we only. . . I can only be happy with these sales, but it will certainly affect our delivery to the French Air Force, because we will have to make arbitration, but anyway, give priority to export, because we can wait, because we only have the enemies we make today. As for the Americans, if these two orders come true, Croatia and Greece, they will surprise us! ! ! ! !
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Réponse de Jason Bourne le 17/05/2021 à 10:19SignalerPour l'instant, excepté l'egypte , aucun contrat n'a été signé cette année... So we haven't discussed the delivery of French troops yet. . . But Dassault and France will be happy to have these rich people's problems. . . So far, no contracts have been signed this year except for Egypt …So we haven't discussed the delivery of French troops yet. . . But Dassault and France will be very happy to have these problems with wealthy people with saturated order books like Airbus before Covid.Maxim replied on May 17, 2021, 10th: 57signaler@Jason Bourne. Technically, Greece's contract was signed in 2021, so there are two Gust contracts in 2021.@Calamard Switzerland's contract (like Finland's) provides for deliveries between 2025 and 2030 and is therefore different from those in Greece and Egypt.@Jason Bourne. Technically, the Greek contract was signed in 2021, so these are two Gust contracts for 2021. The@CalamardSwitzerland contract (like the Finnish contract) provides for deliveries between 2025 and 2030, so unlike the Greek and Egyptian contracts, it will not have an impact on French deliveries because it has a long enough lead time to organise without problems.
Mougeon on May 17, 2021 at 8: We have to sell them a propeller plane or give them a plum every time they rush into our national space and brake too late. This topic has put an army of civil servants at work (every country has its own ball) and the air force. . . We have to sell them a propeller plane or give them a plum every time they rush into our national space and brake too late. This topic has put a civil service army to work (every country has its own balls) Swiss Air Force, no, but what a joke! Then, bid for a nuclear submarine on Lake Geneva?
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Réponse de m le 17/05/2021 à 11:50SignalerL'Armée de l'Air suisse et ses pilotes sont reconnus dans le monde. So, of course, unlike the experienced drivers at the front, but they are very technical and professional, and in one of the most difficult theaters in me. . . The Swiss Air Force and its pilots are famous all over the world. Of course, they are not like experienced pilots on the front line, but they are very good both technically and professionally, and in one of the most difficult areas to master: Mountains and mountains.@M replied on May 17, 2021 at 14: Swiss pilots have undoubtedly acquired skills related to topography and geography, especially in flying "slow" aircraft and helicopters, which are useful in carrying out missions in mountainous areas. On air hunting, today's topic, please allow me. . . Swiss pilots have undoubtedly acquired skills related to topography and geography, especially in flying "slow" aircraft and helicopters, which are very useful for mountain missions. For air hunting, today's topic, please allow me to doubt! Look at their fleet of planes. The F5 Tiger, which can only fly during the day, and the soon-to-be-obsolete FA18. . . Say hello.
Ardisson replied on May 17, 2021, 21: Speaking of propeller-driven aircraft, the trainer aircraft of the French Army is made in Switzerland. Swiss pilots are excellent because they are constantly trained to fly in millimeter scale in the mountains. Don't tell anyone. . . Speaking of propeller-driven aircraft, the trainer aircraft of the French Army is made in Switzerland. . . Swiss pilots are excellent because they are constantly trained to fly in millimeter scale in the mountains. Don't talk nonsense!
Gerardc27 on May 17, 2021 at 8: Switzerland does not need powerful fighters because it is protected by neighboring countries and is small in area. Why not entrust its defense to Europe and pay for it?
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Réponse de cd le 17/05/2021 à 9:39Signaleridee geniale. We can even do the same thing in France and pay America to protect us, right? Oh yes, what should we do if America finally decides to let us down (as the French did to the Czechs in 1938)? Or if it's just. . . That's a good idea. We can even do the same thing in France and pay America to protect us, right? Oh yes, what should we do if America finally decides to let us down (as the French did to the Czechs in 1938)? Or if they decide to increase the bill because we have no choice. . .Jason Bourne replied on May 17, 2021, 10th: If you're not Swiss, it's none of your business. If the Swiss government wants to rely on anyone to secure their airspace, that's their business. Besides, as a neutral country. . . If you are not Swiss, it is none of your business; If the Swiss government wants to rely on anyone to secure their airspace, that's their business. Moreover, as a country that regards neutrality as sacred, the sovereignty of its airspace has become an overriding issue, even if it is surrounded by powerful powers. In addition, it seems to me that the air forces of neighboring countries are already monitoring Swiss airspace at night, and Switzerland hopes to end this dependence on foreign countries by purchasing new modern aircraft.
Maxim's reply on 17/05/Nov. 11, 2021: If you want to remain neutral and credible, you have to be able to impose that neutrality. In addition, there are other problems in entrusting your air defense rights to a third country: If one day a passenger plane is hijacked by suicide bombers and flies to Bern or Zuri. . . If you want to remain neutral and credible, you must be able to impose that neutrality. In addition, there are other problems in entrusting air defense to a third country: If one day a passenger plane is hijacked by suicide bombers and headed for Bern or Zurich, do you think France, Italy or other countries will make the decision to shoot down a passenger plane with 150 passengers on board in Swiss airspace?
Henry replied on May 17, 2021, 11: 32 signaler@gerard27: Switzerland is more protected because it remains the world's vault, even as many countries try to bring it together.
Citoyen Blas é wrote at 8am on May 17, 2021: Gust has sold better since the old oligarch lost control, hasn't it?
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Réponse de Ha bon le 23/05/2021 à 23:09SignalerL'ancien "vieil oligarque" a bâti une entreprise que beaucoup de pays nous envient.Il n'avait rien à voir au fait que les USA aient tout fait pour saboter les ventes du RafaleOvomaltineà écrit le 17/05/2021 à 7:48SignalerLa Suisse c'est particulier... They don't need to be careful, because they can hide behind the mountain and ambush. . .
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Réponse de Photo73 le 17/05/2021 à 8:49SignalerIls n'ont pas non plus besoin de grande vitesse sinon ils sortent rapidement de leurs frontières (petit pays). :-)Your e-mail will not be displayed publicly. All fields are required.
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